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Detractors of Freemasonry and conspiracy theory enthusiasts often erroneously sight Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" as the "Freemasons Bible" and quote from this book written in the 1800's by an American senior mason who was a Brigadier-General in the Confederate Army and had a strong interest in the Scottish Rite Freemasonry.
I am a Master Mason who has never read the whole book - only extracts posted/printed by other as "evidence" of Freemasonry being "Evil" or "Anti-Christian"..
I have seen a copy - but it looks very long and very dry. What a single Mason has to say about Freemasonry so long ago seems almost irrelevant to me in the Twentieth Century and on a different Continent - and indeed about a differnet Rite... (the books whole title is "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry")
Has anyone read Pike and what did you think ? It would also be worth replying with "never read it" to give us a feel of the frequency that the book is read by Masons.
What about his other (largely ignored) books ?
Do some of us think Pike is a Hero or do we just want him to disappear into history for good!
I am a Master Mason who has never read the whole book - only extracts posted/printed by other as "evidence" of Freemasonry being "Evil" or "Anti-Christian"..
I have seen a copy - but it looks very long and very dry. What a single Mason has to say about Freemasonry so long ago seems almost irrelevant to me in the Twentieth Century and on a different Continent - and indeed about a differnet Rite... (the books whole title is "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry")
Has anyone read Pike and what did you think ? It would also be worth replying with "never read it" to give us a feel of the frequency that the book is read by Masons.
What about his other (largely ignored) books ?
Do some of us think Pike is a Hero or do we just want him to disappear into history for good!
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Pike on Wikidedia
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 12:11 AM
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Pike on the Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 12:12 AM
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 8:06 AMNever read it except in snippets on detractor pages. Since many things in Masonry are symbolic.. and the "Light" is what we focus on.. whenever Christians of his time saw the "Light Giver" they think Satan, and that's it.. nothing else.. This is probably more indicative of the days in which he lived however.
Enjoy
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Unsu...
Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 9:11 AMi've got a copy on my bookshelf, and that's pretty much where it stays.
some of it is good, but it's written in a way that's, well... dry.. stilted... and a lot of it seems to be writing to see the words on the paper. it's almost like Joyce in it's effect (think a psychedelic sleeping pill)
i don't know who came first, Pike or Waite... but one of them is copying the other's style.
from time to time i pick it up, though ... it does have some interesting parts, and as far as the out of context quote about "seething luciferic powers" ... i think the post below hit it on the head...
the real kick is when those websites try to tie him to the KKK ... with zero evidence. then again, i suppose if they were worried about evidence, they wouldn't be hosting those sites.
i also have some stuff by Mackey ... and an old book of Freemasonic Poetry (i should take a pic and post it here)... i guess it's about time to go find a lodge.
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sat, August 11, 2007 - 11:53 PM<<i guess it's about time to go find a lodge. >>
I think so...
:)
<and an old book of Freemasonic Poetry (i should take a pic and post it here>>>
How Old ? Can you post a pic ?
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Unsu...
Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Mon, August 13, 2007 - 7:34 AMnot sure... i'll get a picture of it and try to find some info about it
oh, and that was MaCoy... not Mackey :) -
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Unsu...
Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Tue, August 14, 2007 - 7:24 AMok... i brought it to work today, so hopefully i can get a picture up.
it's The Poetry of Freemasonry ... by Robert Morris. it was printed in 1895 - so it's not as old as i thought, but a hundred years is still old to me :)
i found an online version through google
books.google.com/books -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:12 AMBloke wanted my comments.....Well he seems to be one of the worst things for freemasonry today. He is quoted out of context or miss quoted so often that he has no credit left. He may have been a genius in his time but now his is a millstone. He is like those old guys in your lodge who would never let a black man join the lodge. Dinosaurs who have to go. If someone mentions Albert Pike I would just say his a blow hard from long ago who had a lot a whacky ideas which dont have anything to do with real masonry and anyone who quotes him is a fool who didn't do his own research. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 10:34 AMJimmy, While I respect your right to think and feel that way, I find it offensive that you would consider me a fool.
Albert Pike was genius in his day. He sat down and he did HIS job of furthering himself in masonry and searching out Light. The results of his search and his work is Morals and Dogma. He looked around and saw all the extra Masonic bodies that were floating around from the different lands of origin and he organized them into the Scottish Rite. He expounded upon the symbols of masonry in the blue lodge then of course the following 29 degrees in the SR.
No two men need to see the point within the circle the same way. But, I can listen to what you take out of it and apply it to my morals and come to my viewpoint of it. You can bring the Pot of Incense to my attention which then sends me into the library, the bookstore, the internet, to learn and come my own conclusion. Albert Pike, was that person that started so many masons' journeys. I recommend you try and sit down with M&D and LISTEN to him, if he doesn't make your mind think about the symbols of masonry, then okay. But, don't say his ideas don't have anything to do with "REAL" masonry.
I would like to know what your idea of "REAL" masonry is. Is it simply going to lodge and voting on the fund raiser for so and so benefit. Or is it maybe going to lodge and paying the bills. Is Real masonry sticking through the voting and paying of bills just to get to the program, listening to a brother talk about HIS research into the beehive and how it shows we should work hard and for the greater good of our family, state and country etc? Or is real masonry taking all these things and putting them together and finding out how they make you a better man?
Just because a man is misquoted does not mean he has no credit. Masonry in general has been taken out of context and misquoted does that mean that masonry has no credit and we as masons have none either? I do not see your reasoning. Masonry was genius back in the day does that mean the fraternity is pointless now? I mean what is the point of learning about all these symbols when a good majority of us don't dive into them and study them and actually try to better ourselves. Sounds kinda old and outdated to me.
Lastly don't ever join the Scottish Rite you feeling the way you do. Because, all you are going to get out of it is a hat, a ring, a pin, a flower if they give to you in your jurisdiction and a number. 32. You will not go back and study the preceding degrees because they are just a lot of wacky ideas that have nothing to do with real masonry. All the meanings of the degree will be pointless. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 3:25 PMWell chandrapada you don't know me so I will allow you your miss placed rant.
It is true that we should all be looking for new ways to think about masonry....your admonishment of me for thinking badly of Pike makes me think some new things for sure. All I was trying to say is that when you take this book out of the time it was writen for and viewed by people with little or no masonic background it is a bomb in thier hands. Yes it can be used for good, yes it can be instructional but don't put in on a pedistal because someone will just drop it on your head.
Have no fear of me every joining the Scottish Rite. It is to full of Cliques and pompus blow hards who think they know things that they clearly do not that I have vowed never to join. Maybe where you are it is different but not where I live.
I proimse I will get a copy of M&D and read it front to back....I have a few other books in the que a head of it but I will do it for you brother. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 6:48 PMAh nice – some debate ! This will get this often slow tribe going ! HAhahaa !!!
Chris – I can tell you a bit of Jimmy’s “Real Masonry”. It is thoughtful and interested in education and discussion. It has an interest in Fun and being “Brother” to someone in practise rather than word. It is generous. It sends gifts to me from America in the mail. It is interested in respect and tradition but not bullshit and status. Its purpose is to “make good men better” and realises that this starts with giving tools to the individual to improve himself. These tools are support and education and discussion and reflection. It is not dogmatic. It is interested in innovation rather than doing something “because that’s the way we always did it” while at the same time preserving Landmarks and the values of the order.
Chris. It sounds like you are telling me I should read M&D back to front (groan). Should I ?
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“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. “
~ Aristotle ~
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 11:08 AMaww I'm blushig Bloke...it is all true though...hahaha
Yeah even a flame war would bring some much needed excitement...not that I want to do that...just saying things here get boring because we cant really discuss the things we would like to discuss in a public forum such at Tribe. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 3:22 AMI was going to Private Message this.... but then thought I would be brave and post it LOL..
I think some of the frustration expressed by our Brother in the video sum up some of my feelings about Pike.
Conspiracy enthusiasts will retain their ignorant and hopeful leaps of "logic" and see fiction & supposition as facts and I don't think posting this will add fuel to the fire which already burns brightly - ironically shedding no light at all...
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
Following these I see David Icke pops up... now there is a guy who would probably put forth an argument that leggo or ice cream is part of a NWO plot.....
What do you guys make of these two videos ? -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 8:59 AMHey thanks for proving my point. If some asshole shows up outside your lodge bugging you about a book from the 1800's that no one reads or cares about ask them to leave, when they don't, call the cops. He explained everything to them and in the end they just said he does not know what he is talking about...he is a mason they are not...who is better equiped to know?
Now you see the danger in Fundementalists...they know they know and they dont care what answers you give they know better than you.
What was that shit about Pikes Peak and the Turnpike being named after Pike? Pikes Peak is named after an explorer named Zebulon Pike. The turnpike goes back to medeval times with guards holding pikes to block the road. Even the Mason has little clue. I'm telling you unless you know this 800+ page monstrosity and all the history it deals with inside and out...stay far away from it in conversation. It will bury you...like the Mason pointed out it can be taken out of context easily.
On the other side they brought up the bible which of couse has murders and incest in it's first few chapters but is beyond reproach right? Know what you are reading and talking about people.
I tend to agree with our brother in the video that Pike has little relevance to the everyday mason and not because we are "low level". What an isult to those of us who are elected officers. He is no longer relevent at least here in the US because our lodges have been stripped of everything esoteric and mystifying. They went for quantity over quality a long time ago and as these post WWII guys die they are going to suffer for it. That's where it is. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 6:30 PMI love the way our Brother was explained-away by those conducting the interview as a well dressed PR guy and also as “too low level” to know… Some seem to miss that a GM in the Craft has no higher rank above him... . And, lets pretend for a moment he does, if he does – a GM changes every 2 years (here) and that is a lot of dudes running around knowing “the secret” - bah ! Also most things are decided by vote in GL. I am a voting member of GL and no one has told me ! (I feel so left out *sob* :)
One thing which is good is the way the first mason was saying “oh I will write that down”… but the next guy spoke to these guys. Good on him ! He may, or may not, have been wasting his time – but I think he did well in the discussion but more importantly he was generous (brave?) for having it. There was obviously a lot of preconceptions and misinterpretations from the interviewers who seemed to think 19th Century Scottish Rite and 20th Century Craft (in a different country as well) are one in the same – and that Albert Pike was some sort of Masonic Overlord and his book is a “Masonic Bible “ ??????? - and these are “experts” on Freemasonry who promote conspiracy ?
But I think this is exactly why we should talk about Pike – it promotes Freemasonry AND also education and understanding… hey… that sounds more like Freemasonry :)
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 7:40 AMAgain Bloke, you and I take different aproaches but I think we can both be right. I personally hate to waste time with people like that. Anti masons are one of the reasons I joined freemasonry so I could find out for myself. Now that I know I have little time for those who dont and dont want to learn. But I would give you 10 mins to talk to them before I called the cops and had then hauled off property. On of the assistant chiefs of police will be master next year of the one lodge I belong to. His father is president of City Council. It would be and easy thing to have a phone call made. That is the real power of freemasonry...knowing who to call for help.
As an aside the Old Allentown Postoffice has huge swastikas laid out in tile on the floor...and a large PA Dutch (german) population does this mean Allentown is controlled by Nazis??? Well according to indepth researchers like the folks in that video it guess it does. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 7:57 AM
<That is the real power of freemasonry...knowing who to call for help. >>
Oh God... I hope the conspiracy tribe are not reading this LOL...
<, PA Dutch (german) population does this mean Allentown is controlled by Nazis???>>
They that is interesting.. when was the building built ? It is good they did not rip it out.. it is amazing it survived WW2..
Oh … and back to the youtube.. I think the best words to describe those kind of conspiracy guys is..
fixated,
obsessed
with a need to believe theories
that they are oppressed by others.. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 5:07 PMI was build in the 20's I think and you can only really see it if you get up high or really look at it. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Mon, October 15, 2007 - 2:11 AM -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Fri, October 19, 2007 - 7:31 AMSo what are they saying they don't belive in a supreme being? I can only coclude that they must be athiests if they "don't agree with masonic beliefs". I say burn down the damn church and show them what we do to witches....
sorry I saw an advertisement for and occult store pop up on the side --------->
That always pisses me off. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Fri, October 19, 2007 - 3:48 PMNo...
In
<<"I don't have anything against Masons," he said. "They are not in agreement with the way we, as a church, believe.">>
They probably are saying they don’t respect others religions as we do..
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Unsu...
Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Fri, October 19, 2007 - 5:08 PMwow. i've been out for a while, but i'm glad i have a minute to comment.
Jimmy, i don't know you from Adam, so i'll try to be as even as i can.
that said, i'll probably be leaving this tribe.
"He is quoted out of context or miss quoted so often that he has no credit left. He may have been a genius in his time but now his is a millstone."
"All I was trying to say is that when you take this book out of the time it was writen for and viewed by people with little or no masonic background it is a bomb in thier hands."
genius is not subject to time, and your second statement had nothing to do with the first. it's an ad hominem attack, plain and simple. his ideas are up for grabs. taking potshots at a dead man is hardly good debate.
"Have no fear of me every joining the Scottish Rite. It is to full of Cliques and pompus blow hards who think they know things that they clearly do not that I have vowed never to join."
WOW. now you're psychic? they "think they know things that they clearly do not" ... that is really interesting. please elaborate.
"If some asshole shows up outside your lodge bugging you about a book from the 1800's that no one reads or cares about ask them to leave, when they don't, call the cops."
does this happen frequently? or do you have one or two mentally ill people in your town who have had too much internet access at the library?
"Anti masons are one of the reasons I joined freemasonry so I could find out for myself."
i'm guessing you didn't take the same route with homophobes. what a silly thing to say.
'Now that I know I have little time for those who dont and dont want to learn."
"But I would give you 10 mins to talk to them before I called the cops and had then hauled off property."
ten whole minutes? way to look behind and extend your hand. have you forgotten that once you were as hoodwinked?
"On of the assistant chiefs of police will be master next year of the one lodge I belong to. His father is president of City Council. It would be and easy thing to have a phone call made. That is the real power of freemasonry...knowing who to call for help."
absolutely disgusting! an abuse of fraternity. this implies that the law is worthless, the enforcers corrupt and untrustworthy, and your arguments too weak to sway a random stranger.
"I can only coclude that they must be athiests if they "don't agree with masonic beliefs". I say burn down the damn church and show them what we do to witches.... "
freemasons respect any religion except for no religion. steal that one from the muslims?
*shakes head* ... i can only hope that whomever reads this can tell by your arguments (let alone spelling/grammar) that this is not the best that masonry has to offer.
divisive, elitist attitudes are the main reason i have not, and most likely will not, join a lodge.
with an attitude like what you've shown here, i couldn't call you brother.
I'll leave you with another quote, which I hope you contemplate to a fuller understanding.
"Now you see the danger in Fundementalists...they know they know and they dont care what answers you give they know better than you. " -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Fri, October 19, 2007 - 5:32 PMGood. I see you have not left this Tribe Ali...
Have you read Pike in toto ? As a non Freemason - what did you think of it ?
You will learn from the above I have only read bits of it..
I would not regard myself as the most educated of Freemasons – but certainly do a lot of reading. I guess I am particularly interested in the Crafts place in History and also its symbolism.. After speaking to many Freemasons – Pike is not high on my reading list – but I have told Chris I would wade through it.. as did Jimmy..
For me – Pike seems a long way away from Australian Freemasonry in the Twentieth Century. Most of our Masonic Traditions are drawn from Europe (exclusively in the Craft I would think). It would be very interesting to know what Pike’s Masonic contemporaries in Europe made of his work.. I don’t suppose you would be able to give me a title or reliable web site on that ? I must look myself as it would add to this discussion greatly.. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sun, October 21, 2007 - 5:53 AMWow Ali you have taken a whole bunch of posts and tried to make it one big anti masonic argument.....I am not sure I should even reply to this. Some of those things are sarcastic observations I made and others are kind of slanted due to other conversation bloke and I have had.
As far as the anti masons go if they are on private property harassing members coming and going yes I would call the cops. Just like if you were on my front lawn right now harrasing me or my family. Would you rather I shoot you? There are public places for debate and they obviously were just looking for a fight.
Abuse of power? Well I knew some well meaning boob would try that one. You should have focused on the part about knowing who to call for help. I know a mason who is an email administrator so when I got a new lap top I asked him to help me move my files from one computer to antother. Was it and evil conspiracy? I know a non mason who is an electrician and a long time friend of mine who helped me put in celing fans. Was this less evil? I went to college with a guy who is a pediatrican he has given me adivice on my sons heath. Not a mason...abuse of power? I know masons who dig ditches, do dental work, do construction, run townships, make pizza and lots of other things. If I got to them for advice or service that is some how abuse of power???
Your words are spoken like a guy with no friends. It's not what you know it's who you know. If you have a hobby and are in a hobby group you are more likely to turn to anyone in that group for answers before perfect strangers. That is all I am saying but now I guess I can be put up there with your dear pal Al as being missquoted and missunderstood. See how easy it is to put your own world view emotional spin on things?
The internet is a cold, heartless way to read someone words. Eveything sounds angry. If don't want to be a mason that is fine and if you do that is fine too. But don't come to a masonic site, start telling masons what to do or think and then say you wouldn't join lodge and start ripping on masons. Either be one or not but don't dabble and claim to know more.
As for scotish rite...you don't know the people I know now do you? I am commenting my personal experience which you can say yours in area is differnet but don't come down on me for what I know to be true about the men I know....
I suggest we leave this here and move on because it is obvious we do not nor will we agree. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Mon, October 22, 2007 - 6:51 AM"I suggest we leave this here and move on because it is obvious we do not nor will we agree. "
It is this ability to agree to disagree and still remain brethren that is what the heart of freemasonry for me is about.
Many men will nto always see eye to eye. Shoot I'm shorter than Jimmy (LOL!)
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Mon, October 22, 2007 - 8:29 AMhahaha yes you are Val.
I have learned in the last fee years you can not convice anyone of anything. Not because it is imposible to be persuasive or give you opinion it is just that most people today thing they know everything they need to know. Eveybody acts like teenagers, you can't tell them anything. If you do share your thoughts you usually get attached and vilified. It's hardly worth it to have discussion. That is why real discussion does not happen in open fourms like this.
I could still disagree with Ali and call him brother...If I couldn't then I would have had to quit Masonry long ago. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Mon, October 22, 2007 - 8:46 AMI agree with you Jimmy when you wrote above how message boards (and generally electronic communication) can be easily misinterpreted.. I have had an angry college on the phone about an email I sent him… I had no idea what he was on about until I re-read it….
I think this whole “network” thing is the trickiest (I know droves of Freemasons who think ancillary degrees like Scottish Rite are full of guys into status and elitist.. ) and it is better to do one Order really well than 10 badly..
As Val said, - even when you disagree you still need to try and retain mutual respect. Ali is not a freemason – but this should make no difference to that respect.. .
One GL officer I respect once described “higher degrees” as simply the work of 19th century Masonic play writes teaching allegorical morality and mystery lessons, Indeed some of these “higher degrees” were written in the twentieth century yet project ancient wisdom… maybe they do contain that.. But I think the position to judge that is once you’re in them but when the character of the men in such groups is not “Masonic” and worthy of admiration – it can be hard to hold respect for the Orders they hold up as bastions of light..
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Unsu...
Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Mon, October 22, 2007 - 9:06 AMbloke
i don't have any good sites for pike stuff - i've only got the hard copy at my house. i hardly think he's the most illustrious writer i've ever encountered, but everything is worth a look.
jimmy
<<Ali you have taken a whole bunch of posts and tried to make it one big anti masonic argument...>>
hardly. i am just shocked by your posts and was hoping to illustrate why.
<<Well I knew some well meaning boob would try that one. >>
well meaning boob. your arguments are startling, and now i see why.
if you are unable to see the difference between political/law enforcement influence and the replacement of a motherboard... this conversation certainly won't go far.
the abuse lies in the fact that you'd cut through the public channels... turning a public service into your private security force. it's pretty obvious, to me at least.
<<Your words are spoken like a guy with no friends.>>
quite so. my scottish rite friends are pompous blowhards.
<< It's not what you know it's who you know.>>
i disagree. but i guess that comes from knowing, rather than being 'connected'. some day you will stand alone on your merits.
<<The internet is a cold, heartless way to read someone words.>>
then you, representing masons, should choose yours carefully.
<<But don't come to a masonic site, start telling masons what to do or think and then say you wouldn't join lodge and start ripping on masons. Either be one or not but don't dabble and claim to know more.>>
i wasn't the one telling people what to do or think, jimmy. that was you. the only 'mason' i ripped on was you. and i stand by it.
i have been thinking of joining a lodge to further what i already know. the only thing keeping me back is attitudes like yours. i don't want to share what i've learned with that kind of mindset. fear-based minds cause me to use caution.
and really, by now you should know the degrees aren't what makes the mason.
i find it funny how you qualify your posts after the fact, rather than within the post itself. you made a blanket statement about all sr brothers and then partially retract it when someone calls you on it.
also, you assume very much, especially about me. bad habits, bud. you never know who you're talking to.
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Unsu...
Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Thu, September 6, 2007 - 11:31 AMfreemasons.tribe.net/photos/...75ab5564
freemasons.tribe.net/photos/...6ec5ea39
well... that didn't take too long ;)
what do you think this is worth? -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Thu, September 6, 2007 - 5:41 PMYeah - interesting !
The cover reminds me of the "Dangerous Book for Boys"...
:)
Thanks Ali !
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sat, November 24, 2007 - 4:29 AM
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Wed, December 5, 2007 - 12:50 PMI'm not a mason, but I read large swathes of it (I collect antique books), and quite enjoyed it. The way I read it, it is one of those giant theories that is spectacularly interesting, but certainly nowhere near correct. The history and sociology in it is certainly a product of the era. Something like Thomas Carlyle and Oswald Spengler's views of history. The moral teachings in it are pretty admirable, and I'd like to think they've actually helped me a lot.
The wacky quotes I have read are all of the same nature as people who misquote the Talmud to make it look like jewish folks are bad people. In fact, I'd have to guess those misquotes were done by the same people. Take any book of more than 200 pages, and you can probably find some weird quotes in it.
As for the KKK thing ... well, if he was, so was Harry S. Truman, and Truman desegregated the Army and assisted in the creation of Israel -hardly the actions of an evil racist. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sat, December 8, 2007 - 4:41 PMBrothers,
I did not mean to me mistaken or rude. I am just a "fan" I guess you could say of Albert Pike. And how each of us in the Craft feels about him has no grounds on how I perceive and feel about any of our brethren. I know that until proven other wise, I could and would trust each and every one of you. And, I thank each one of you for being a Freemason and standing up for and upholding our values, Friendship, Morality, and Brotherly love.
I will not speak anymore in this thread. -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sat, December 8, 2007 - 5:14 PM<<I did not mean to me mistaken or rude. I am just a "fan" I guess you could say of Albert Pike. And how each of us in the Craft feels about him has no grounds on how I perceive and feel about any of our brethren. I know that until proven other wise, I could and would trust each and every one of you. And, I thank each one of you for being a Freemason and standing up for and upholding our values, Friendship, Morality, and Brotherly love. >>
That’s a really nice message..
One of the important things about being Brothers is being able to disagree with respect and while continuing to remain Brothers… Sometimes silence is required to do that, sometimes tack, sometimes forgiveness, but I thank everyone for their honest opinions and thoughts..….. Pike often makes people a bit passionate..
And for your information – I still have not started reading Pike… but it is on my list now… (Kicking myself for saying I would read it LOL)
Once again Brother – a very nice message of excellent sentiment. I look forward to your next post – in this, or any other thread..
Thanks Brother
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 12:19 AMChris and other fans of Pike...
You might like
www.morningstarconsistory.com/PDF....pdf
www.scottishrite.org/what/educ/srrs.html
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Thu, March 20, 2008 - 8:02 AMI have read the entire thing. I kept it by my bed and over a very long period put my eyes on every single word. Mark Twain called the Book of Mormon "Chloroform in print". This is worse than that in that about the time one is sort of drifting over the pages, oops there is a nugget that I just glossed over, then back to pure chloroform. Really challenging stuff, plus constant looking stuff up to verify assertions of Eastern practice and so it goes.
Lets remember a few things about Pike. First of all, he was a witch in the pagan tradition, indeed there are people active in the SR in DC who practice various rites in the area using Pike rituals and techniques. Secondly, for his time and place, he was a serious scholar of what we might now call the Eastern Philosophic tradition. He was a confederate general and came very close to being in serious trouble over the actions of irregular troops attached to his forces. I do not personally have the interest or time to look into that period closely, but people I know who have are pretty critical of him regarding that incident. Further, in Arkansas, where he was a prominent lawyer and land owner prior to the war his name is still feared among the poorer and more connected to tradition types as a witch and real wild man. Years ago, reading a book about witchcraft in America I ran across a reference to Pike and his practices in Arkansas. I wish I had it now. Apparently in the pre war period he would get a big party together, with teams of horses, wagons, slaves tons of food and drink and go out in the woods and more or less cut loose for a week or two. Joy was unrestrained depending on which side of the party you were on.
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Thu, March 20, 2008 - 11:24 AMI read it while going through the AASR, my reasoning being that I would have to read it eventually, so I might as well do it while I'm going through the degrees (I'm fortunate enough to have a Valley local to mee that actually prforms all 29 degrees twice a year). I would not reccomend the book to anybody unless they are going through the degrees (and even then a great deal of the book are lectures that are in the degrees themselves) or they want to be an AASR scholor.
It's a great book for people with an anti-Masonic agenda to use because it's very easy to take quotes out of context as the book is large enough and by no means a light read. But for every time somebody takes a quote about Lucifer, the true religion, the god of Freemasonry, etc. they're ignoring dozens of quotes about morality and virtues that most anti-Masonic authors are likely to themselves agree with.
As for his other works: I'd reccomend anybody going through the AASR read the Legenda rather than M&D, Esoterika has some very intersting ideas, and Magnum Opus is worthwhile for anybody who can't see all the AASR degrees, despite the fact that they are only Pike's first draft when he was still a 32nd degree, and changed, sometimes significantly (the 31st degree for example), over the course of his lifetime. All of them are quite dry and long-winded. Those are the only works of his that I've read.
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 8:25 AMHave read him, have my copies here and still do ... -
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Re: Albert Pike (big breath)
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 8:33 AM<<Have read him, have my copies here and still do ... >>
What did you think of his book ?
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