<<<it just seems very odd to me that there can be an 'official' lodge that claims a monopoly on the creation of lodges - when there would have to be an initial creation of the grand lodge (by irregular/clandestine lodges, if you use the USGL definition...)>>

Not Really. A Grand Lodge only has that Authority because the Masons who comprise it VESTED it with the Authority. Remember the meaning of the word "Lodge" above- it is a group of masons - and not something like a company - without the men (and/or woman) it is nothing. All Lodges here are represented at Grand Lodge in a much more meaningful way than say a "Parliament" in practice and in voting rights as a ratio of the entire masonic population. The Grand Lodge System is a good one. This Vestment of Authority by masons in a GL was true when UGLE was created - but the problem was that the majority of masons at the time did not vest it with that authority - and it was really a fairly new model and idea. Indeed some Lodges which existed at time continued to operate alone for a long time after UGLE was founded. If memory serves me right - there are still some that do.. .Many 'regular" masons in remote places started working without Official Recognition and worked while it arrived - even initiating candidates - this was especially true in the 1700 & 1800's... For administration and uniformity of practise and rules - a Grand Lodge makes perfect sense..

"Exclusion" is different from "Irregular". Exclusion is when you have been initiated and are a in a Regular Body (or Irregular I guess) and get denied rights of being in a Lodge due to misconduct. It does not happen regularly - and the most common reason is non-payment of membership fees. Like many organizations - you cannot fully partake of its "services" without financial membership... oh and if your interested GL Fees here are about $90 AUD per annum - so it is hardly sheep stations..

The only person I have ever seen in tribe who was accused of being a "fake" mason was someone who held they were a mason but had never been initiated into either a recognized regular nor irregular body - and I would agree that such a person is holding themselves out as being something they are not - and hence "fake". If that person cannot understand that they have a very poor understanding of all generally accepted views, both regular and irregular , of what "Freemasonry" is.. Please find the post where Jimmy said someone was a "fake" mason and used that specific word... If you join the "True Ancient Masonic Keepers of Light' (name made up) which was founded in 1980 by non-masons who are not even a close facsimile in practise and values of a "Recognised Lodge" - you cannot claim to be a "Freemason" - yet some people do... Golden Dawn is a good example.

Ancient Free and Accepted Masonry (ie "the Craft") only has three degrees.. Descriptions from 32 Degree "Masons" about their appendant bodies is quiet interesting - but has no real bearing on "The Craft".. They have no special standing in the Craft. Indeed I could "outrank" a 33 Degree Mason both in my Lodge and at Grand Lodge (which I have the right to site in). However you will normally (but certainly not always) find such masons are very experienced in the Craft as well.. As we always say - "Freemasonry" is a label that can be widely applied. Oh - and how can we have "ranks" when we belief in equality? Simple. "Rank" is usually attached to a job - and hence rank is not (or certainly should) about Status - it should and is about responsibilities and duties - but you do continue to hold many "ranks" after you serve your time in that office to indicate you have served in it.. This also qualified you to hold positions of increased responsibility that require more experience, knowledge and (hopefully) demonstrated ability.

One of the problem with talking about masonry is that it is hard to explain. And bits of it may even sound silly. Also what is indeed regarded as a "secret" can be a little unclear and hence people don't talk about it. Furthermore - often people do not listen and want to be believe in fantasy .. It is a little bit like people calling you a werewolf because you happen to have beard.. It can get very frustration because people get totally fixated on untruths.. I am sick of delusional folks using "Freemason" and "Aliens" in the once sentence ! Sheeeze !

Another problem - is that questions breed questions. I consider i know a bit about Freemasonry - but when I talk to someone who knows a lot (or just a lot of detail about a certain section of Freemasonry ) - I too am full of questions - but they are built upon a lot of knowledge... Questions are an inevitable part of being a Freemason. Without giving offense - I would describe the legitimacy of GL as a very rudimentary question..

Yet another problem is that personal opinion is often represented and accepted as fact. Indeed there are probably things I have said in this post that other Masons may well object to and offer good argument against - treating everything with caution is a wise way to go - and be very carefully as to the source of the information as it will influence both content and POV.

If you're interested - simply look up Freemasonry on wikipedia. Whenever I visit that article (and it has not been temporary vandalised) - it seems to be very good and carried a discussion (and additional links) about Moderns, Ancients and Regularity.

I don't know much about the OTO - but as I don't think it has the requirement of being a Master Mason to be a member - I cant see it is within the scope of this tribe. I am not sure if it has any standing in Australia either as a regular, irregular or clandestine body but I could be wrong in that. Certainly - OTO hardly gets a "bleep" on my radar...

Cheers

Bloke

Excellent question!

Who is running the show at GOOFUS?

Who are the officers, where are their names and pictures?

Where do these "Lodges" meet?

Where does the money go?

The answers,.... good luck finding them, because the answers don't exist, because GOOFUS doesn't exist, except at that one website mentioned above and in the bespeckled head of a wee man who has a meglomanical complex and extremely obsessive compulsive behavior.

Want more information, google "Halcyon Lodge".