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Not trying to start a religious conversation or anything, but I do have a question. I have felt drawn to the great order that is Freemasonry for over a year now. The only thing that has kept me from putting in a petition to join my local lodge is my religious preference. I am a pagan, or wiccan, however you would like to label it. I do believe in a supreme being, which I know is required, but I feel that I will be judged because predominately most Masons are Christian. I would love some input and advice as the draw is becoming stronger within me. I'm even having dreams about joining a lodge. Any help would be appreciated, and I understand if this goes against code of conduct for this tribe. Thanks, Mooncrest.
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Missouri
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Thu, July 19, 2007 - 5:24 PMYou're fine.. there are many Pagans that have joined Freemasonry. You must realize Masonry is a reflection of the world around it as in it reflects the predominate religion of the country you're in, not because it's a Christian organization. -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Thu, July 19, 2007 - 7:30 PMSo then I should have no problems petitioning the local lodge? I know it's not supposed to discriminate on religion, but I was just curious. I'm extremely excited and interested. Hopefully I can figure things out and get my petition in soon. Thanks a bunch. -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Thu, July 19, 2007 - 7:46 PMFrankly, Freemasons are no different than the rest of society, so you're as likely to find individuals who are uncomfortable with Wicca within a Lodge as anywhere else.
My recommendation would be to get to know the folks in a few different Lodges (hopefully, there are several nearby from which you can choose). Go with the one that feels most comfortable with you. Don't be shocked if you find a group of folks in one Lodge or another who are uncomfortable with your beliefs -- just as in many other segments of society.
Good luck, and have fun! -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Fri, July 20, 2007 - 8:26 AMI think Gary’s advice "to get to know the folks in a few different Lodges" is good. He is also right in that you might meet some Masons who are uncomfortable with Wicca... but they should practise tolerance and accept that it is no less valid than other spiritual views. -
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Unsu...
Re: Ok, curious question......
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 2:08 AM"Frankly, Freemasons are no different than the rest of society, so you're as likely to find individuals who are uncomfortable with Wicca within a Lodge as anywhere else.
My recommendation would be to get to know the folks in a few different Lodges (hopefully, there are several nearby from which you can choose). Go with the one that feels most comfortable with you. Don't be shocked if you find a group of folks in one Lodge or another who are uncomfortable with your beliefs -- just as in many other segments of society.
Good luck, and have fun!"
Bloke:I think Gary’s advice "to get to know the folks in a few different Lodges" is good. He is also right in that you might meet some Masons who are uncomfortable with Wicca... but they should practise tolerance and accept that it is no less valid than other spiritual views."
Bloke I agree with both you & Gary but at the same time will say that then things become discriminate,as it is a belief in one God (discriminate by way of the by laws)......
Simplistic way around that is to say yes I believe in one God but follow many...
My recommendation would be to get to know the folks in a few different Lodges (hopefully, there are several nearby from which you can choose). Go with the one that feels most comfortable with you. Don't be shocked if you find a group of folks in one Lodge or another who are uncomfortable with your beliefs -- just as in many other segments of society.
Good luck, and have fun! -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 6:40 AM<<Simplistic way around that is to say yes I believe in one God but follow many... >>
Not simplistic - actual. This is why you see Hindu Masons.... It is my understanding that Hindus say I believe in a "supreme being" - but without denying the other gods of their religion when they join Freemasonry…but I cannot confirm this as my Lodge does not have Hindu Members… there is a Hindu Mason that is a member of this Tribe - I will message him about this :)
Cheers Amethyst
Bloke
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Thu, July 19, 2007 - 7:41 PMOne more question I forgot to ask: what do you guys reccommend, being a 25 year old, if I approach the lodge and they are mainly older men? I would love to be part of the younger group of Freemasons, for I feel it is a tradition that needs to be carried on indefinitely. I just don't want to be looked at as a 'rebel' or things of that nature. I really would appreciate any input you guys have to offer. Thanks in advance. -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Thu, July 19, 2007 - 7:48 PMFrankly, it's likely that this will be the case (it's simply the state of many US Lodges).
Like I suggested previously, take your time and try to get to know the folks from a few Lodges, if possible. -
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Unsu...
Re: Ok, curious question......
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 2:10 AMGary,
What about within the same, the order of De Molay (spelling??it's been a bit!!)
Amethyst
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Thu, July 19, 2007 - 9:16 PMAlso, you do not have to profess your religion. When asked if you believe in a supreme being and you answer yes.. no one will ask again. "Picking and Chosing" your age lodge may not be an option. Just fine people you like and get along with -
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Unsu...
Re: Ok, curious question......
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 2:21 AMEthan, you are so right here. The whole point of Masonry can be lost with such nit-picking!!! -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 6:51 AM<<Also, you do not have to profess your religion. When asked if you believe in a supreme being and you answer yes.. no one will ask again.>>
This it true – and a great point. I only know of another Masons religions because he chooses to tell me about it – if he choose not to, then exactly what he believes or when he goes to church (IF he goes to church) is none of my concern....
<,The whole point of Masonry can be lost with such nit-picking!!!>>
It is not “the point is lost” – such “nit-picking” is specifically unmasonic !
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Fri, July 20, 2007 - 6:00 AMBeing 25 and approaching a lodge of mainly older men please keep in mind that it is MUCH easier for the older "retired" guys to be the active ones. there may be some younger members but with families and jobsd they may not be as active and therefore you may not see them regulary.
As Gary said, Ideally if you are in an area where you can visit several lodges and ask them some of these questions you may be better off. Still, It only takes a few younger guys to start turning the tide towards a younger lodge. You amy be surprised that the older guys may have a lot to offer you! That's part of the idea you know? Never stop learnign and never close your mind.
As Ethan said during the degree in my juridiction you are not asked but we have at least one brother in my lodge that specifically asks that question when interviewing new candidates. I'm NOT comfortable with him doing that but it is NOt in lodge and therefore not a problem really. So far it hasn't caused any problems. I know of at least 34 brothers in my lodge personally that are Wiccan, not Pagan as there is a difference.
One thing I may caution you on though is how accepting are you of others religions? Do you have a problem taking an oath or obligation on a Bible or a Koran? I've been to a neighboring lodge that has brought in brothers who took their oath on a Koran. Many Wiccans I know are divided on this subject. Some have no problem taking an oath on a bible and others are against it.
Not giving out a spoiler but at least in my juridiction it is explained later in the degree work WHY you take you obligations in the manner you do.
Having said that good luck on your travels!
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Fri, July 20, 2007 - 9:08 AMI just had my post-petition interview for my prospective lodge on Wednesday night.
Yes, it was with older gentlemen, but I know for a fact that there are younger men in the lodge. As Val said, though, they work for a living and devote more time to their jobs and families than lodge - which I was told is the way the masons want it.
As for the religion question, I did get asked formally, "Do you believe in deity?" To which I answered, "Yes." Nothing else was said about it except to say that one of the local lodges here did have a degree ceremony recently with 5 holy books as there were that many different religions being represented by the brothers being awarded that particular degree.
I find the religious tolerance extremely refreshing, but it has to come from each individual for it to work - including my tolerance of others already in the lodge or still to come.
They were going to submit my petition to the meeting last night and seemed very positive after meeting me and my wife. As much as I can, I'll keep youse interested folkses informed as this is kinda exciting for me. -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Fri, July 20, 2007 - 9:16 AM<<As much as I can, I'll keep youse interested folkses informed as this is kinda exciting for me.
reply to this post >>
Please do :)
I am sure you will enjoy being a member of the brotherhood !
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Fri, July 20, 2007 - 7:16 PMI have no problem taking my oath on a bible, as I feel it is a great book of guidelines to live by, to better the brotherhood of man. I am not Christian, but I have no problem with it. As far as the deontation between Pagan and Wiccan, I use both terms because a lot of people clump them together with the same meaning, regardless, so I did it for ease. I'm technically ecclectic Pagan, as I have many different practices. I appreciate all the help you guys have given me and will keep you all updated on my progress towards becoming a Mason. Thanks.
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Unsu...
Re: Ok, curious question......
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 2:13 AMValentin Lime makes a very valid and appropriate point, to learn from those that have been there. I'm not Mason, but do find a lot in what my Grandfather and Dad have taught me from it.
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Unsu...
Re: Ok, curious question......
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 2:15 AM"Wiccan, not Pagan as there is a difference. "
Please explain this part of your statement to me. I ask this as I am a Witch and I know the difference between being a Witch and Wiccan and a Witch Pagan in general.
Thanks,
Amethyst -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 6:44 AM<<<"Wiccan, not Pagan as there is a difference. "
Please explain this part of your statement to me. I ask this as I am a Witch and I know the difference between being a Witch and Wiccan and a Witch Pagan in general.>>
I think the point is that regardless of you being a “Wiccan” or “Pagan” etc your religion deserves respect.
It has mine :)
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 7:13 AMThe difference as it was explained to me was that Wiccan's tend to follow the Wiccan Rede or some form of retribution to negative or bad things where as some Pagans don't. Again the lines get awfully blurry here. Thus the reason for my comment about there being a Wiccan and a Pagan can be different.
Now you've added in the term Witch. Not all Pagans or Wiccans refer to themselves as a witch. It depends (or it can) on how you view the practice. Either as a faith or a practice in something else. -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 3:55 PMActually, wicca is a small sect within the vast array of pagan beliefs. It happens to be the best known, but it still probably only represents 5 or 10% of neopagans.
I consider myself to be pagan but not wiccan. And I'm a mason.
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Unsu...
Re: Ok, curious question......
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 2:18 AM
"One thing I may caution you on though is how accepting are you of others religions? Do you have a problem taking an oath or obligation on a Bible or a Koran? I've been to a neighboring lodge that has brought in brothers who took their oath on a Koran. Many Wiccans I know are divided on this subject. Some have no problem taking an oath on a bible and others are against it."
There are those that I know of who simply took the oath with the U.S. Constitution as it represented values without the religious contraint, as well as those who have taken it over the Witches Bible by Janet and Stewart Farrar.
Amethyst -
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Sun, July 22, 2007 - 11:51 AMI am a "Hindu" and I am 23 years old. I was the youngest in my lodge and most definantly the only Hindu.. It is wierd being in a lodge of veterans talking about the Korean war when I can only relate to Afghanistan and Iraq but it is all good lol.... But I enjoy my lodge. As for the Bible or whatever... I had no problem taking an oath on it... It symbolizes a great many good things. And symbology is WAY MASONIC!!!
Good luck on your path!
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Re: Ok, curious question......
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 3:50 PMMostly this is a question for the lodge members of whatever lodge you might join. There are pagans in freemasonry, even the conservative old flavor of freemasonry.
Some obediences are much more sticky than others, though. And some lodges care while others don't much.
