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From the BBC at news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7029513.stm
Vatican book on Templars' demise
The Knights Templar were disbanded in the 14th Century
The Vatican is to publish a book which is expected to shed light on the demise of the Knights Templar, a Christian military order from the Middle Ages.
The book is based on a document known as the Chinon parchment, found in the Vatican Secret Archives six years ago after years of being incorrectly filed.
The document is a record of the heresy hearings of the Templars before Pope Clement V in the 14th Century.
The official who found the paper says it exonerates the knights entirely.
Prof Barbara Frale, who stumbled across the parchment by mistake, says that it lays bare the rituals and ceremonies over which the Templars were accused of heresy.
In the hearings before Clement V, the knights reportedly admitted spitting on the cross, denying Jesus and kissing the lower back of the man proposing them during initiation ceremonies.
The Pope was obliged to ask for pardons from the knights - the document absolves them
However, many of the confessions were obtained under torture and knights later recanted or tried to claim that their initiation ceremony merely mimicked the humiliation the knights would suffer if they fell into the hands of the Muslim leader Saladin.
The leader of the order, Jacques de Moley, was one of those who confessed to heresy, but later recanted.
He was burned at the stake in Paris in 1314, the same year that the Pope dissolved the order.
However, according to Prof Frale, study of the document shows that the knights were not heretics as had been believed for 700 years.
In fact she says "the Pope was obliged to ask for pardons from the knights... the document we have found absolves them".
Details of the parchment will be published as part of Processus contra Templarios, a book that will be released by the Vatican's Secret Archive on 25 October.
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Re: Not Quite about the Craft....
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 3:48 AMhere... check the original... asv.vatican.va/en/doc/1308.htm -
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Re: Not Quite about the Craft....
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 9:36 AMWhenever I hear this stuff I think...why now? what does the Catholic church want that they are going through the trouble of clearing the name of poeple who have been dead and gone for 700 years. They still dont turn over all the names of the childmolesters they hide in their church. They still sit on huge piles of gold taken from central and south america where there biggest supporters still live in poverty and opression. The vilifiy homosexuals while they are clearly living side by side with them in their own organization. They refuse to give equal rights to women in or out of the church. What do they care about an order from long ago? Stop me before I start a conspiracy rant.... -
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Re: Not Quite about the Craft....
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 6:55 AMAll good questions jimmy BUT they aren't conencted things. As I so fondly remember telling ym ex wife. DO NOT put all the problems in one basket. You cannot carry all of them at once. -
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Re: Not Quite about the Craft....
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 11:35 AMI am a Catholic and a freemason, and it bother me that I am still in a grave state of Sin for being a freemason. As such I am barred from taking the sacrements. This was upheld in the early 80s by then Cardinal Ratzinger.
And last winter the Vatican upheld the mass excomunnication of all Catholic Freemason and Demolay members in a Nebraska Archdioscese. Now in my humble opinion excommunicating children for being a member of an orginization is wrong. Even Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler Youth, and very little beef is made about it as membership was compulsory when he was growing up. Even if the catholic church feels that Masonry is wrong, they should show the same compassion to children. -
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Re: Not Quite about the Craft....
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 7:14 PM<< And last winter the Vatican upheld the mass excommunication of all Catholic Freemason and Demolay members in a Nebraska Archdiocese. Now in my humble opinion excommunicating children for being a member of an organization is wrong. >>
That’s a crap thing to do… I agree that the church should show a little compassion. They used to show more respect for other religions under the last Pope - and Freemasonry is not even a religion – yet they get the guns out for us in a big way…
What the hell is wrong with Demolay ???? I assume these kids are being excommunicated even before Confirmation – when they are recognised as adult members of the congregation.
Did they give any reasons – or is it guilt by association ?
Take heart brother. There is a few Catholic Priests who ignore membership. Many Brothers here are Catholic. This particular part of the Church's teaching is often just ignored.
Sounds like we might be entering a sort of Catholic McCarthyism.. Sad.
I think it sadly shows prejudice in some sections the Church and a willingness to stop freedom of association of Catholics. I have never heard a good objection to membership. You don’t excommunicate men who take an oath of loyalty or to hold their secrets of their Country. While as masons we are required to respect others religions – this in no way diminishes your own. The whole thing seems sad and silly and unjust..
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Re: Not Quite about the Craft....
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 9:02 AMThe Cathholic Church is the root of all evil (problems) in the world today...NOT cathoic people just the church dotriine which would excommunicate children...this 2007 not 1507 wise up. -
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Re: Not Quite about the Craft....
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 9:32 AMWell I wouldn't go that far. There are a lot of good things that the church does do. and here in America there are a lot of issues being raised because Evangelical and Fundamentalist want to exert their religious beliefs on the whole of American Society. -
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Re: Not Quite about the Craft....
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 4:38 PMYeah sorry I dont mean to be so negative. I dont thing that individual people or parishes per se are any better or worse than any other christians and churches...I have the same problem with fundementalists. You can say that just because an event does not include Jesus it is evil...they just go way to far. My mother was raised in a Baptist church so I know how it goes.
I will shut up now because Masons should not talk about religion it just leads to diasagreement.....
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