What is it with the atheism?

topic posted Sat, August 9, 2008 - 2:53 PM by  SigiCeline
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I don't mean this to be rude...just wondering why Freemasons still have a problem with atheism? I also notice the phrase "stupid atheist" (and I think libertine was part of that phrase, too) and wonder what that means?

Was there a time when atheists were thought by all of society as "stupid", and that's a hold-over from then? Is the exclusion of atheists driven by the thinking (in the past) that atheists were not to be trusted?

Just wondering. I used to be an atheist at one point, but not anymore these days. Just curious why the Freemasons (apparently) have a such a dim view of them.
posted by:
SigiCeline
Denver
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  • Re: What is it with the atheism?

    Sat, August 9, 2008 - 3:43 PM
    <I don't mean this to be rude>

    Not rude - good question..

    I will get back to you on it (if no one else does) .. but just wanted to let you know I don't find it rude and appreciate your respectful tone :)
    • Re: What is it with the atheism?

      Sun, August 10, 2008 - 9:49 AM
      I dunno why someone would refer to atheism as "stupid" when referencing Masonry, but Atheism is not allowed because Freemasons believe that any obligation you take w/o the belief in a consequence in the afterlife is not an obligation that a man cares if he breaks.

      Think of it as Karma... if you lie cheat and steal.. (break you obligation) then what goes around comes around ;-)
      • Re: What is it with the atheism?

        Sun, August 10, 2008 - 10:00 AM
        I do not think per se that belief in the afterlife is a pre-requisite. Just the belief in a diety, so that there can be a supreme architect of the universe. So we can find a deliberate order to the things around us.
        • Re: What is it with the atheism?

          Sun, August 10, 2008 - 4:13 PM
          I believe the original quote is

          Dr. James Anderson, in The Charges of a Freemason, wrote in 1723: "A Mason is obliged by his Tenure, to obey the moral Law; and if he rightly understands the Art, he will never be a stupid Atheist nor an irreligious Libertine."

          Which the "Stupid" part has been largely dismissed and an unnecessary insult.

          The Moral Law however is pertinent. It directs us to keep our obligations by swearing on an a Holy Book binding your word. If you did not beleive in the a deity, that swearing would mean nothing to you and the consequences would be meaningless. The Supreme Being is the only thing that can truly judge you for your actions.
  • Re: What is it with the atheism?

    Sun, August 10, 2008 - 3:17 PM
    I agree that the wording is unfortunate -- and a holdover from earlier times. I believe the gist of the phrase is supposed to imply 'someone who hasn't thought seriously enough about life, the universe, and everything to realize that there _must_ be a deity involved...' That is, that it's not intended simply to be a gratuitous insult.

    Freemasonry purports to advance "the brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of god," so that's sort of the kernel of why a belief in deity is required.
  • Re: What is it with the atheism?

    Wed, August 13, 2008 - 3:56 PM
    As a deist, and someone who enjoys both masonic and deistic history, there are plenty of reasons why Masons would feel this way.

    In the case of the historical quote from above, this has to do with the brand of atheism that later clenched the heart of the French Revolution. In many cases, when it was the driving philosophy; it was relentless and cruel - even going to extremes. Plus, in cases where a society would support a dominate atheistic point of view, they also tended to persecute Masons. Dialectical materialism - which says only 'science', atleast from the marxist point of view, can explain why the universe formed the way it did, is often one of the philosophical platforms of atheism and secular humanism. This philosphy tends to deny the possiblity of an Universal Architect. While some modern atheists deny this almost religious faith in secular science, humanistic atheism expresses a literal fundementalism that is usually found only in radical religious sects. This is odd, since true science (non-political) would have never been able to fully develop without the values of the Masonry.

    Right now there is a historic rift growing between atheistic and deistic thinkers because of people like Richard Dawkins - the Dawkins version of evangelical atheism has also had a diversive effect on the scientific community as a whole. Dawkins has promised that with the abolishment of religion - and by religion he means all religion, faith or spirituality, then humanity will be free to think and reason. However, what is being proposed to take it's place is a rule by science alone ... and thus, the dissolution and destruction of human society as we have known it since it's rise in Egypt.

    There are serious questions to be asked about this line of secular humanistic or atheistic thought - and very little historic proof to the validity of the possible scientific utopia that Dawkins is purposing. There is a huge difference between the 'reason' that Dawkins has in mind, and that of the Founding Fathers, Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine.

    When atheism acts as a cultural solvent in this way, I would imagine that it's actions would be perceived as an antithesis of a truly free society by some Masons.

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